WESTERN SKIES - October 20, 2005

*** RECONCILIATION ***

ERIC WHITNEY: And now, an unusual story from Taos, New Mexico. Phil Perea and Frank Tollardo of Taos, share an unusual bond. In 2003, Tollardo's twenty-two year old son, Eric, and two other young men were shot to death. Phil Perea's twenty-six year old son, Jason, was convicted of the murders and sentenced to forty-one years in prison. Instead of polarizing themselves, the two fathers, Perea and Tollardo, are now working together to help Taos youth escape the cycle of violence. By promoting a trade school to offer an alternative to gangs, the two men hope to improve conditions in their home town.

Perea and Tollardo talked to Suzanne Kryder, host of Peace Talks, an independently produced radio program based in Albuquerque.

SUZANNE KRYDER: Frank, tell us about Eric. What was he like?

FRANK TOLLARDO: He had a good heart. He was a good hearted kid. He was a funny guy. They always tell me I'm funny, and they would say, Eric's like you. He was a funny guy. He was always making jokes and funny comments and stuff like that. I remember that the most about him. He had this beautiful hair, set of hair, on his head, and every time I'd see him I would rub him on the head like a little puppy and hug him and tell him I loved him and stuff, and I always liked doing that.

KRYDER: Phil, tell us about Jason.

PHIL PEREA: Jason is more like an individual that always hung around by himself. He took care of most of his worries, and stuff like this, whether he needed to pay his rent, he always stood on his own. He was fun to be around with and so forth, he's got a little girl that he really admires. Anywhere he used to go he'd make sure that he made room for his little girl. He was just a loveable person, he just seemed to get along with people, and make friends, and everything, but as far as hanging around with a bunch of friends, he was more like a loner, more by himself.

KRYDER: SO he's currently in a correctional facility?

PEREA: Right. He got two life sentences of thirty years a piece, concurrently, thirty years total, right now.

KRYDER: How does he feel about things now?

PEREA: Well, he turned around and he apologized, and he even wrote me a letter, which I haven't actually given it to Frank, he said that he wanted me to give it to Frank and tell him how sorry he was and the mistake that he did was a great one. He tried to apologize to the other families, and he was quite remorsed at the trial, and he regrets what he's done.

KRYDER: Frank, have you met with Jason since Eric's death?

TOLLARDO: No, I haven't.

KRYDER: Talk about forgiveness. How have you been able to completely forgive Jason for any role he might have played in Eric's death?

TOLLARDO: I know most people can't understand how I could forgive so quick. The way this came about is after Eric's death, I started praying a lot. And I prayed for three weeks to a month, just day and night. And one day I was walking out of my house, and it's like the Lord spoke to me and said, "You need to call Phil Perea and tell him that you forgive the family, the son, Jason." So I did. I did what the Lord told me to do, and I called Phil who set up a meeting with his pastor and my pastor, because Phil's a Christian too.

KRYDER: Typically with violent crimes, it seems like it's difficult for the victim's family to forgive the accused, and particularly their family. Phil, tell us the story about how you two were able to create this bridge and work together.

PHIL PEREA: I got a call from Ben Maestas, which is my pastor in Taos and told me that Frank wanted to meet with me. At that time, I got that phone call when I was in the office of my son's lawyer. The lawyer said "Don't Go!" And I said, "Why?" And he said, "Your son just finished killing his son. They're going to set you up and they're going to kill you. I don't care what you think, but I've seen it so many times. They're setting you up."

When I got out to there, the first thing my wife told me was "You're going. Aren't you?" And I said, "Yeah. I know Frank. I know part of his family. I want to meet with him. I want to see what this man's got to say." We showed up at the church, Calvary Chapel, in Taos. And the first thing that came out of Frank's mouth was "You tell Jason that I forgive him." At the time, he said "I'm a little shaky, I'm a little nervous. But what I want to know is can you help me?" And I said, "Sure, what is it that you want?" And he said, "I want to start a program for the youth."

KRYDER: Let me interrupt you Phil. I want to go back to the courage that it took to go to that meeting. I mean, you must have been a little bit worried. How did you overcome that fear?

PEREA: Well, for the first two weeks, I carried a gun. Everybody in town told me "You got all the right in the world to walk into that police station and ask for a permit and they'll give it to you because your life is in danger. Not only from Frank but there's two other fathers." And the first thing they said was, "They're going to wipe out the Pereas." I'm the only Perea in Taos, and there's three families at me. But right after, I got a peace of mind I said, "Lord, I hand everything over to you. My son, the whole situation." I put the guns away. I don't need them. And I say, every morning I wake up and I say, "What a beautiful day to die." If it was my turn, it'd be right there and then. I'd say "Thank you." Why? They're just sending me home a little sooner. That's all. I'm not worried about death.

KRYDER: So it's OK, you're really at peace?

PEREA: Yes.

KRYDER: Well Frank, talk about the possibility of retaliation. Because it does seem like that's part of our culture. People would expect you to retaliate.

TOLLARDO: Well, the thing about it is, I knew Eric, really good. I know that he wouldn't retaliate in that way, he wouldn't want me to. And I wouldn't want him to do it if it was me that was dead. I told Eric's friends at the funeral, because I heard a lot of his friends saying "retaliation," and Eric was well-loved by a lot of friends, and I told them "no retaliation." I don't want no blood on my son's hands. And that's the way I've always felt about myself too. I've never wanted any blood on my hands. If somebody comes after me with a gun, I'm going to let them shoot me. I'm not going to try and shoot them back. I'll let them take me out. But that's just the way I grew up and those are my beliefs.

KRYDER: I'm really impressed with your religious beliefs that each of you have. Is that a requirement for people to forgive and for people to just trust, without carrying guns.

PEREA: Forgiveness is a healing process. Without forgiveness, you can get ruined within yourself. Christians usually...and there's a lot of "fly-by-night" Christians, so-called Christians. You don't know their true colors until something like this occasion happens. If you really feel that you're backed up against the wall and say "Lord, help me," he will. If you believe in any respect that it will be solved, resolved without violence, it'll happen. And it will start with peace of mind, peace within yourself and saying, "I gotta work at it." But just to say, "I forgive you," then turn around and be bitter and hateful and everything, it won't work.

KRYDER: Let's talk about the violence rates, because you all have mentioned that. I know there are different reports about the high crime rates in Taos. There's one at a website called homefare.com that says, crime in Taos is four times the national average. And they show the statistics that in a town of less than five thousand people there were twenty one homicides and five hundred and eleven aggravated assaults in Taos in one year. So Phil Perea, What do you think makes Taos more susceptible to violence?

PEREA: Lack of work. There's teenagers that come out and graduate. They don't have no choice but stick around and do nothing except get in trouble. If the work economy was higher in Taos, I could see them getting a job and staying busy within themselves. And then they don't want to hire some of these guys, and if they do, it's minimum wages.

KRDYER: Frank Tollardo, did you grow up in Taos?

TOLLARDO: Yes, I did.

KRYDER: So how are things different?

TOLLARDO: Life is rougher nowadays, the parents need to get more involved with their kids. I'm even guilty of that myself. I should have been more involved in Eric's life, I should have gotten more involved when he was younger. But that's what I think would help a lot, if parents got more involved. Kids see their parents for five minutes, they go home and eat and sleep and they're gone. The parents don't see them.

KRYDER: So parents, and also is it something about guns, like kids have more access to guns, or there are more guns? What's changed?

TOLLARDO: Yes, I honestly believe there is more guns. There's guns being made every day. And they're being stolen, or parents have guns in the houses, they need to lock them up or whatever they have to do. But guns are deadly. I know they'll never do away with guns, which they shouldn't, but they need to put them away in safes or something.

KRYDER: Phil, tell us more about what you two are doing to improve things in Taos for young people.

PEREA: When we had that meeting at church and I first talked to Frank here, he mentioned something about doing something for the youth. Not ping-pong, not basketball, or anything like that. But something they could work with their hands. We came up with the solution of a body shop. A body shop where they could work with their hands and be proud of what they built.

Most of them guys are good at what they do. Take the Show Lows, for instance, the low riders. You know how much pride they put into them cars? Every bolt in that car has been gone over and they dress it up, and they take pride in what they do because they build it with their own hands, blood, sweat and tears, you might want to call it. We don't have anything like that. How many times have you seen someone say, "I'm taking a mechanics school." "Where?" "Phoenix, Arizona." Why can't it be in Taos? "I'm taking wood-carving." "Where?" "Phoenix." Why couldn't it be in Taos?

And I feel if you give these kids something to do with their own hands, get them off the street, you got something working for you. By the same token, we're looking at once a week, have the parents come in and spend the time and see what the kids are doing, take pride in what they're doing, and back them up in what they're doing. Not just to build a low rider, a hot rod, anything in that respect, but to see that they're interested in building something within themselves. And I think that will give them some pride.

KRYDR: Frank, tell us more about where the school's going to be and who's it going to serve.

TOLLARDO: Right now we're just talking to people to see what kind of help we could get. I've talked with a lot of contractors that I know and they're willing to help build this place and volunteer their time. We just haven't had enough response on funds. And we need to find some land and things like that, to start it. But a lot of people are interested in helping. We also want to have body work, upholstery, auto mechanics, and get some more input from the kids themselves on what they would want. We need more people that want to help out.

PEREA: What I understand this lady who wants to donate ten acres. There's a guy right here in Albuquerque who wants to donate two welders, he's a welder instructor. He'll go up there and start the program, and start teaching. What we're doing at this present time, we're just taking names.

KRYDER: Phil, if you had one minute to explain what you've learned from this experience, what would it be?

PEREA: I would say, pay more attention to your kids, and see what they're up to. Just spend one hour, two hours, whatever it takes, fifteen minutes. Spend some time, know where they're at, not push them, not crowd them, but at least be a friend. Not a father, be a friend to your kids, and you'll see different results.

KRYDER: And Frank, what can you say to our listeners to encourage them to be more forgiving?

TOLLARDO: Well each individual is different, so I know there's still a lot of people who aren't forgiving of what happened. And I try and tell them, you need to forgive, but in your own time. Some people it takes a lifetime. But the sooner you forgive, the better for you, I think.

WHITNEY: Phil Perea and Frank Tollardo spoke with Suzanne Kryder, host of the independently-produced radio program Peace Talks, based in Albuquerque. You can find an internet link to other stories in the Peace Talks series on the Western Skies webpage at KRCC.org.

And that wraps up this edition of Western Skies. Stephen Raher is our associate producer, Delaney Utterback is the IT wrangler, Colorado College student Lindsay Patterson assists with our webpage. I'm Eric Whitney, Thanks for listening.